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Poles are not leaving the UK

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Are Poles really leaving the UK? How many of them are in the UK now? Report by Wiktor Moszczynski of the Federation of Poles in Great Britain.

Daily Mail: Anti-Polish articles >>

I propose to say a few words about the Polish community who form the bulk of the so-called A8 nationals who have come to this country in large numbers since 2004.

I am not really in a position to talk about the other nationals - Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Hungarians, Slovaks and Slovenes, except to say that their experience mirrors that of the Poles who have come here, to a smaller degree. Poles form 60% of the total intake if these new arrivals from the 8 accession states from Central (not Eastern) Europe that joined the European Union in 2004. I also wish to stress that the citizens from these states who come to the UK tend to see themselves as EU citizens or EU workers with their families, rather than as migrants.

So how many Poles are there in the UK? There are more solid facts in the study of Astrology than in the study of Polish Demographics in the UK. Government statistics seem to be based on four major sources of information about the number of Poles in the UK. The first two are the Labour Force Survey and the International Passenger Surveys. Both are flawed because they are based on random samples not on solid total figures, though undoubtedly the former survey does give an interesting sociological glimpse about possible trends in the Polish community in Britain. The latter survey is of little use as it fails to record anything except arrivals through the major London airports and Channel Tunnel and takes little consideration of arrivals and departures from provincial airports. In any case a border control system that records people entering the country but not leaving it leaves a much skewed picture of immigration in this country which is exploited by organizations like Migration Watch UK and the British National Party.

 

Daily Mail: Anti-Polish articles >>

The third source is the Worker Registration Scheme which was introduced in 2004 in order to regulate A8 citizens seeking to work here. It required everyone seeking employment to register at a cost of £50 (now £90), and then to register again (free of charge) every time they change jobs. The act of regulation was supposed to ensure that new A8 workers would also be paying taxes and national insurance. It was seen as a useful tool at the beginning, both for the Government which was seen to act responsibly in the face of a large influx of new workers (then estimated at about 13,000 new arrivals every year), and for new arrivals to help accommodate them to settlement and to legal employment in the UK, which would also assure them immediately of rights to child benefit and to use of the health service. After one year, if they should lose heir jobs, they would be eligible for other subsidies such as jobseekers allowance. According to WRS statistics administered by the Home Office a total of 327,538 Poles registered for work between May 2004 and December 2006. A lower figure, some 150,000 Poles registered in 2007, of which 38,000 in the last quarter. On February 16th 2008 "The Times" noted this drop, got very excited and announced that the Poles were leaving the UK.

This information was misleading because of the innate flaws of the WRS. The truth is the WRS is expensive and bureaucratic and it never covered the many thousands of Poles who declared themselves to be self-employed. Furthermore few Poles bothered to record changes in employment after one year. When newly arrived Poles or formerly self-employed Poles sought to register after 2006, Home Office advice was not to bother as registration was no longer compulsory. Later they found that failing to register made them ineligible to all benefits except child benefit. The regional statistics based on WRS also proved highly unreliable, noting, for instance low figures in Northern Ireland and the Scottish Highlands, where they were high and showing Camden and Westminster as the London boroughs with the largest population of Poles, when all other evidence showed that the largest concentrations were in Ealing, Brent and Haringey. They showed that the largest group of Poles worked in administration, business and management, which sounds optimistic until you realize that this covers all the cheap recruitment agencies.

We have found the fourth statistical source, the National Insurance Registration figures, to be the most reliable source of information on Poles in this country, though imperfections remain. We trust the NI figures both at national and local level because they correlate with other important local statistics such as the number of children speaking Polish, numbers of Polish births and numbers of Polish citizens on the electoral register. Between 2001 and 2006 - 333,000 Poles had been registered for National Insurance. In the year 2006/2007 a further 223,000 were registered making a total of 556.000. Please note that that last year showed an actual increase, not a decrease in registration, on the previous year.

 

However it is generally accepted that there are more Poles who have come here and have not registered for work but are working nonetheless. Many of these are seasonal. The total Polish Embassy estimate last year was 600,000 with more during the summer season. Statistics from Poland indicate that perhaps up to a million have come here but not necessarily stayed, or may have come more than once in a year. Let us also not forget 57,000 British residents recorded as being of Polish origin in the 2001 Census, plus a further 100,000 or so second and third generation Poles living in this country. The best solution is to say there are 800,000 Poles in the UK including the older indigenous Polish population.

A useful guide to their geographical distribution throughout the UK is to record which constituencies had more than 1000 new Poles registered for National Insurance in the last year. Here is the list: Acton and Shepherds Bush, Bedford, Birmingham Ladywood, Birmingham Perry Bar, Boston & Skegness, Brent East, Brent South, Brentford and Isleworth, Crewe and Nantwich, Doncaster Central, Hackney North, Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds Central, Leicester West, Mitcham & Morden, Northampton South, Nottingham East, Oxford East, Peterborough, Salford, Southall, Southampton Test, Streatham, Walthamstow, West Ham, Aberdeen North, Edinburgh East, Glasgow Central and Inverness & Nairn. Also 5 constituencies recorded more than 2000 new NI registered Poles: Ealing North, Luton South, Slough, Tottenham and Edinburgh North & Leith. 8900 Poles were also registered in Northern Ireland last year.

According to the DWP, one third of the Poles who came before 2006 are employed in administration business and management, 22% in hospitality and catering, 10% in agriculture, 8% in manufacturing, 6% in the health service, 5% in food processing, just under 5% in the retail trade and the same again in the construction industry. There is therefore a wider variety than the Polish plumber and builder. Their input into agriculture has been particularly appreciated in Scotland and rural areas like Wales and Lincolnshire where they have effectively rescued Britain's fresh food production. Their work ethic is much admired by their employers and they are often seen to take jobs that the indigenous population have failed to take up. According to the IOD, out of 500 employers surveyed by them 61% say they hire Poles because of their superior skills and only 16% because they were cheaper. 32% of this workforce has had a university education; more than 90% are less than 40 years old.

 

And yet according to other surveys conducted in 2006, some 80% were employed initially in the region of £4.50 and £5.99 per hour, so just below and above the national minimum wage. This is almost certainly changed as more and more Poles are making promising careers in areas such as accountancy, banking and responsible jobs in industry and administration but a lot are kept in low pay jobs and often work illegal hours and in dangerous forms of employment without adequate insurance for injuries. Driven here by the then 19% unemployment rate in Poland and by an average monthly wage of £800 a month, they found even these low paid jobs attractive especially if they economized by staying in tied accommodation or in low quality multi-occupational housing with hot bedding and some 3 to a room. Many of those with a poor knowledge of English were exploited both by English employers and Polish middlemen who often cheated them of their hard-earned money. The action of trades unions in seeking to recruit Polish workers, in fighting for better pay and working conditions for them has been an invaluable help, as has the tightening up of the licensing of gang masters in agriculture and the food industry. Unfortunately workers in the hospitality and construction industries do not have the same protection and remain exposed to unregistered recruitment agencies.

According to surveys conducted by the University of Surrey in 2006, some 16% of those who came here had a specific short term aim to earn enough to buy property or invest in a business in Poland. 20% are here to earn money seasonally and rarely stay more than 6 months at a time though they are ready to return the following year, 22% were ready to stay here long term, perhaps permanently, and some 42% had simply no definite plan about their future. Because of this it has been particularly difficult to predict the future trends or to invest in more permanent institutions. Poles remain highly mobile. Cheap coach journeys and economy flights from provincial airports ensure that 80% of them travel back and forth between Poland and UK at least once (and often several times) a year, and 70% retain regular contact with families by phone, mobile and money transfer. For this reason any statistics based on border crossings are meaningless in measuring the number of Poles in UK.

The same survey showed that 72% come from rural backgrounds or from small provincial towns in Poland and these are the people least likely to have a knowledge of English, least likely to know their rights as employees and tenants and least aware of how to adapt to a multiethnic society. About 38% questioned for instance showed a racist attitude to intermarriage, although a majority were ready to conform to British standards. Those with young families found it much easier to adapt as their children went to school and learned about the British way of life, though this can still remain a problem with older Polish teenagers in secondary schools in inner urban areas who often resent being brought to the UK and separated from their friends in Poland by their parents.

 

Much of this would improve with time but there is also a discernible rise in hate crimes against Poles particularly outside the large cities. In rural communities the Polish minorities are highly visible. Poles are not just the victims of crime. Newspapers articles and the police have referred to the large number of crimes committed by Poles in the UK, more than 7000 arrestable offences in 2007. Overwhelmingly these are for lesser crimes and the possibility of a Polish citizen being arrested in the UK is statistically 3 times less likely than it would be for an ordinary resident in the UK. A particular problem is the high proportion of motoring offences, especially drink-driving. Polonophobic sentiments continue to fester, particularly among British residents with a low level of economic or social achievement, and this sentiment is sustained by sensational headlines in newspapers like the "Daily Mail".

Local police forces, local authorities and health trusts are often overwhelmed by the need for Polish translators, Polish advice centres and places at day schools. There were 7179 children registered in London local authority schools alone last year with Polish as a first language. There is a tug of war between local authorities and the central government based again on a different interpretation of statistics. The recent introduction by the Government of Exceptional Circumstances Grants and the New Arrivals Excellence Programme to help local authorities with a high number of foreign pupils is to be welcomed.

A further complication for the local health trusts is the difficulty for Poles to register with local health clinics and GPs because of a lack of utility bills and then this causes them to overutilize the A&E departments of local hospitals for the slightest medical problem.

According to the National Bank of Poland about £4bn are sent each year by Polish workers in the UK to their families at home. However according to the National Institute of Economic and Social Research the Polish workforce contributed £12 billion to the British economy in the years 2004 to 2006. So both economies have gained from their presence. According to Piotr Grzeszkiewicz, director of recruitment agency Sara-Int, the Polish workforce contributes about £1.9 billion a year to the British exchequer in income tax and national insurance and this does not include council tax.

 

While Poles with families can claim child benefit (some £21 million), regardless of whether their children are in the UK or Poland, only 3% of the Polish workforce are eligible for out of work subsidies like the Job Seekers Allowance after working here for more than a year and then being made redundant.

Many of these Poles came to the UK because of the vibrant economy and the opportunities offered by the British Government in its courageous decision in 2004 to open the British labour market to the A8 countries. But an added attraction was a historic wartime link between Poland the UK reinforced by the presence of a large Polish community in this country since the end of the Second World War. This older community saw themselves initially as temporary political exiles but once it had accustomed itself to the fact it would not returning to a free independent Poland, it sought to settle permanently in Britain in the spirit of integration but without assimilation. It was enriched by new waves of Polish immigrants in the 1950s and 1980s. Over the decades, the Polish diaspora became a model for integration of other communities into the UK. The new Polish arrivals in this decade appeared to almost swamp the older community and the two initially lived totally separate lives but the presence of the older settlers is making it much easier for the new Polish arrivals to adapt themselves slowly to British life.

There is a vibrant Polish Catholic Mission in England and Wales, independent of the British Roman Catholic hierarchy. It administers over 134 parishes, but in fact mass can be heard every week in at least 224 places of worship around England and Wales. The Polish church in Ealing sees an average 5000 Polish worshippers attending one of eight masses each Sunday. The Polish Catholic Mission in Scotland has 18 parishes. Many of these Polish churches also have charity volunteers who give advice to the homeless, drug addicts, alcoholics and their families.

The Federation of Poles in Great Britain is an umbrella organization for the traditional Polish secular organizations in the UK and has over 80 member organizations, of which nearly 10 are from the new community. There are 74 Polish Saturday schools teaching the Polish language and customs from nursery age to A level courses. The largest such school in Ealing has around 600 pupils. There are two Polish universities in London.

 

There is a Polish Daily which has been published in London since 1942 and 5 weekly magazines some with a print run of over 25,000 distributed throughout all the major Polish centres. There are 3 radio stations and an internet TV station now linked to the Sky channel. All of these play a major role in seeking to integrate the new Poles into British society and British economy while sustaining interest in Polish culture, traditions and news from the homeland. Apart from the churches and media there is a lot of useful advice from Polish speaking staff in free advice centres subsidized by both Polish and UK funding, although some private firms exploit the unwary charging high prices for simple translations and photocopying. The Polish Consulate used to be overwhelmed with people seeking help but they are coping better now and are opening a branch in Manchester.

There are several hundred Polish firms in the construction, production and retail industries as well as some 100,000 self-employed Poles in various cottage industries. Polish food, fresh as well as tinned, is available in thousands of outlets throughout the country from Indian shops, Polish delicatessens through to the big supermarkets. High street banks vie for Polish business and make it possible for Central Europeans to open a bank account without the need for utility bills. There is a visible Polish presence on the streets of Britain, in places of entertainment and on public transport.

Certainly growth in the Polish economy and a change in the exchange rate of the zloty to the pound (from 7.2 per £ in 2004 to 4.83 per £ this month) have contributed to a slow down in the arrivals of Poles in the UK by the end of last year. Some 22,000 have gone back permanently. Many have returned because they had achieved their short term goals and there are more opportunities in Poland constructing Stadiums and roads for the 2012 UEFA championships. Large cities like Warsaw, Wroclaw and Gdansk are urging Poles with their newly acquired skills to return ("But not all at once," said the Deputy Mayor of Gdansk in a TV interview in December). Other EU countries are now opening their labour markets to the Poles as well. The election results in October last year, leading to the collapse of the eccentric Kaczynski government have also removed an important psychological barrier to Poles returning but the unresolved issue of double taxation on earnings in the UK and suspended social benefits in Poland after a 2 year absence will remain a barrier for many homesick Poles until they are resolved.

 

There is no doubt that the peak of Polish visitors has been passed but we do not expect a mass migration of Poles out of the UK. We estimate that in 5 years time some 60% of those Poles who settled here will not have left, especially those with good employment prospects or with children in English schools. Probably about 20% will remain here permanently but in an age of increasing migration this will become less and less noticeable and all EU citizens should feel at home wherever they are in the European Union.

Nevertheless in view of some of the problems that I mentioned I believe that there is a need for a coordinated approach between the Department of Communities and Local Government, the DWP and the Home Office to ensure that
1/ Arrival figures no longer become a measure of migration for EU citizens unless they are balanced with departure figures
2/ An accurate nationwide summary is drawn up of all local government statistics on Polish children in schools, Poles on electoral registers, records on local employment, local births and deaths, to be published by the Office of National Statistics
3/ An interim National Census should be held every 5 years
4/ There should be a permanent police unit monitoring crime statistics on Poles as victims and perpetrators
5/ Free lessons in the English language and UK civics for all Polish citizens offered through their places of employment or in local community centres
6/ Greater participation by the Polish community representatives in the work of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, Migration Impact Forum and all government studies reviewing the role of foreign nationals, as in the NHS
7/ Easier access for Poles to register with GP surgeries
8/ Scaling down or even the suspension of the Worker Registration Scheme for A8 nationals
9/ Licensing of Gangmaster Agencies should be extended to the construction and hospitality industries
10/ Definition of Racism should be legally extended to discrimination on grounds of nationality or ethnic origin and be a recognized as a disciplinary offence for public employees.

 

Wiktor Moszczynski

Zjednoczenie Polskie w Wielkiej Brytanii

Daily Mail: Anti-Polish articles >>

 

Tagi: poles, great britain, uk, polish community, eu, home office, immigration,

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08-05-2011 22:06 anamana
All 7years I've been working in UK and I've pays tax for African Asian also British children,so what u people want most of u never work even one hour. Most of u working in Polanad ... u are very ...... whatever I go or I will coll is refugees working so tell me u grite British citizen What' s your problem. Look around u all Englishman they are gone ,,,why?????; , because the got enough of u ,they got enough of working and paying tax for u .... think before u written something , I am happyyyy that I am Polish Citizen ,Polish got good history never killing for moneys,never...
17-02-2011 21:14 mickk
Peace love fredom!! People love each other and respect each other. You get from life what you put in. Peace
07-02-2011 22:35 Mrkurwa
Polish come to the UK and act as racists. They're white people all the same.
09-01-2011 12:54 HATEtwats2
Write what ever you want STAN it's only internet, but no, not really as your racist comments CAN be easily tracked to your home address in many ways plus it's widely open for anyone to read so good luck with that. Anyway I dare you going to Poland or anywhere in the world where there are Polish nationalities and repeat all you've said in their faces. Ha! I bet you would sh** yourself, you racist c**t.
09-01-2011 03:19 hatetwats
Stan! You're an idiot pretending to be english ("race" as you like), you're not english so why all the fuss? Most of crimes in the uk are done by black people and arabs! The so called by you "normal british family" is a 16 year old girl pregnant with second child by a different father so she can get an extra room in her council flat, she and the bloke stay on benefits trying for their 6th child to get a bigger house, they won't go to work as they are better of on benefits! Then when they're kids grow up the house will be overcrowded so their kids will get council flats too and it will start all over again. Maybe if you were "real" (as you say) brit you would know that! If Polish people are on benefits then it's because they are entitled to them as they've been paying their taxes like everyone else. However they are not like a "normal british family" they are not here to produce babies and live happy ever after on benefits. You are just a racist pig - maybe you should take a look in the mirror sometimes? If you can afford one? Plus please don't write in a way like if you represent the whole British Islands, you're not British - DEAL WITH IT
04-10-2010 13:44 nieznana_londyn

Komentarzy: 8

at least someone stand on our side ....
03-10-2010 18:26 Bevan
As a British Citizen with a Polish Wife and a beautiful baby son i would like to apologise on behalf of my nation for Stans ignorant comments. He sounds like a sad, lonely underachiever. Unloved by his Mum and with no friends. Shame! I doubt he works for a living, i wonder if he`s even British. All societieties are cursed with narrow-minded bigots (Hitler, Mussolini). The mistake we make is giving them a platform and listening to their boring, copied opinions. So please everyone ignore this oaf. He sums up everything that is bad about this "green and pleasant land". It`s up to us to oust these arses and make this country better regardless of where we come from.
23-09-2010 13:03 angela_londyn1

Komentarzy: 6

To Milo

Thank you !
23-09-2010 10:34 Ms Justice
They do not leave UK. They work for rubbish places like these you can find on http://www.iworkedthere.org
The worst hotels to work for in UK.
21-09-2010 23:20 iraqi proud British
if you dont like britsh peopil and britan you should leave hear and go some were els to work,at least show some preciation even in poland you dont get the same respect .
09-09-2010 10:46 dup
there are bad and good people everywhere it does not depend on nationality come on! on the background culture and much more...
30-11-2009 12:02 monia
i just read all the articule and the comments first is POLISH PEOPLE NOT POLES will you say PAKI .ON the end of the day we are here and we gonna be we claim benefits beacuse we can and all this couse british goverment let us if u do not like it stan u now what to do (f**k off down under) and there is going to be more of us this country is allready taken by asian but now its gonna be taken over by polish if u have a problem with that write to yours goverment cuse they not should let us be here on the first place but now is nothing u can do about this . christmas greetings to all
22-08-2008 19:38 stan
there you go slag off the "britts" the only country stupid enough to take in a nation of beetroot haired women as well as shaven headed drunken thugs and give afford them all the benefits which have been worked for by decent hard worhing people , you carry on you sure know a lot
20-08-2008 17:28 cabrona
Stan, thats the best joke of all because you brits are famous for having the worst teeth around the world! do you even have dentists in that stuck up country of yours? You're also famous around Europe for being the most arrogant, stuck up shitheads who are not capable to learn any foreign language (there are a lot of your countrymen living outside of UK and locals despise you). BTW, have you ever heard of punctuation?
19-08-2008 18:36 stan
the truth must hurt real bad but yet again you show a bunch of low life tossers you speak for well done let real people see you for what you are
19-08-2008 08:56 tom
To Stan:
GET A LIFE U PRICK !
18-08-2008 23:47 stan
what sort of jokers are you people ? you are unable to express yourselves in true English may i suggest you take up some of those FREE language lessons afforded to you by this country , first you need listen to what others think , why do you think there is so much hatred directed towards you ? do you think its about the educated or hard working Poles .of course its not but there is a vast section of you who openly admit that you are here for what you can squeeze and then you are going back home , failing that you will settle here abusing the benfit system , if you feel the need to gome home and create work for "Ryanair"then dont bother , why dont you just swan off back home if your health and dental system is so much superior ? sadly the majority of your lot that come here have no idea about personal hygiene feel the need to have alcohol at the drop of a hat and have teeth which are begging to be pulled out , go home and enjoy your oh so superior services and leave the poor British one for those that need it and more importantly have paid for existence , you people were peasants and shall remain so
18-08-2008 17:23 milo
To Stan

I doubt if you have ever heard about the economy taking under consideration your posts. GB is on its economical position because of years and years of having colonies supplying this country with cheap labour. It is pretty much the same story at the moment. Except that migrants are not slaves (at least I hope so). Did you consider that any immigrant have to spend money on food, living etc. so called basic needs? It means that every pound spent in the store or transferred to an agency/landlord account is supporting their financial flow. Which generally means that they are making profit. Now, if you consider employer who would have to pay £25k per year to interest Briton to work as i.e. waiter and would have to employ 10 waiters that would mean that single meal would cost around £40 in a very doggy restaurant. You are mentioning benefits like free dental treatment - have you got any numbers of how many Polish people used that service? I guess maybe 5% - rest of them buy tickets, so Ryanair is making profit, and going to Poland to have their treatment.

So, to summarize - I do believe that you are representing low class Briton with perfect street English and no interest in learning any other (what for if all should speak English ain't?) with no chance to get proper good job cause you are to lazy and undereducated (which is obvious looking at the posts). Well, open your eyes mate... it is about the time to wake up and do something with your miserable life...
17-08-2008 23:58 Jeronimo

Komentarzy: 1

I'm actually ashamed to live in the same country as that xsonofobic, narrow minded so called 'Stan'

I find your comments very disgraceful and abusing, none of them really makes sense.. as someone stated there are only your schemas, and prejudice....
the fact is that Poles(not all of them) make use the facilities given to then as you would do while living in Poland, the difference is that it would be worth claiming benefits in Poland, yet you would have all the rights other have. UK's Government pays alot of its budget towards social benefit system since they have a highly unwilling to work population and emigrants who came to this country years ago... they all make a use of it and live well. This is the only way to make this country running as most off the GDP is generated from consumer spending and the somehow population need to get the money from somewhere...
17-08-2008 20:05 stan
i rest my case idiots like michal have no place in this debate , spouts complete and utter crud , there is NO benefit system in Poland of note and if it was that marvellous why do most of your countrymen claim child benefit in the UK when the children actually live in poland , you are an arrogant , ignorant person who typifies the stereotypical pole : i am somehow entitled so i will take ,
17-08-2008 18:09 michal
so don't bother! if u think poles are abusing british welfare system you are mistaken! there were are many other migrants in the past and many are now who take far more then poles & give back much less! so go away & comment on them!

BTW if you go to poland, work, pay taxes you will get same benefits as polish do. poland isn't as rich as uk, cannot afford to give many benfits, but you should be proud that your country can help its citizens and others who come there for any reason. one day, it might be british who need help of other countries! i would never ever go to the uk and stay there even if i got hundreds of pounds of benefits. i prefer my own country and i feel sorry for all those who left poland and had to go to england.
16-08-2008 21:44 stan
why i bother to respond to such arrogance i will never know , however it is time the real English people stood up and asked to be counted , of course there is good and bad in all but this mass immigration of peasantry is simply not acceptable , yes there are highly educated and skilled people amongst the newer arrivals but there are also many criminals who have escaped the Polish Judicial system , the drug dealers and pimps who have found are market much more lucrative , and of course the scroungers who exist in both countries except the Poles should have kept thiers at home . It is sad that people expect to slate my comments as they dont like what they here , after all why did many people die in the fight for freedom and particularly freedom of speech when we now have a crowd of do-gooders who want to gag anyone that speaks a language they do not like or understand . It is high time you Poles got off your high horses and came down to the real world , my comment was very simply pointing out that this country is the ONLY place on the planet where the welfare state does not permit anyoe to be without shelter or food and the health system will treat eveyone at the tax payers expense , can I as a British citizen go to Poland and gat the same ? We all know the answer to that one dont we smart asses ?
01-08-2008 23:12 mina
We all know them to well-lazy,uneducated people, usually coming from small towns in poland interested in how to get benefits only and don't work. But these aren't the only poles here and their atitude isn't of all of us.I personally hate them and I am sort of ashamed that they ar e here, but stan is wrong by saying that uk gets nothing from poles, that poles just take british money for free
01-08-2008 11:01 Auzzie
I've read the article, I've read the comments... and despite being polish I must admit Stan is right. This is their country and they feel and see it on the daily basis that all the imigrants have more privileges in their own country than them themselves.

Dont' get me wrong - I know we all work hard, pay our taxes and NI and whatever else, but this is our responsibility. That it obvious - you earn you are being taxed, end of story.
There's quite a few Poles that will work their bottoms off, but there is a growing number of those who come here and just suck off the system for as much as they can, and the only thing they are interested is which, how and when they can claim.

There is both sides in every story and this one is no different. The point of view depends on where you stand. My views may not be popular amongst other Poles, but we should be gratefull for the opportunity to live and work here and do not forget that our own country has done nothing for us.

I am a part of new imigration. Been here since 2005, never claimed anything and hopefully I'll never have to. And I take the point from Stan - it is our attitude that is the problem. UK doesn't owe us anything, so at least make an effort.

... then on the other hand there is many, far worse imigrants than Poles... look at Turks for instance...
31-07-2008 21:30 mo
dear stan,
It is really sad that you don’t appreciate the fact that Polish people are giving a boost to British economy. If all “new” Poles would suddenly return to Poland, certain sectors of British economy would definitely face at least vast difficulties.
It’s also far to simple to divide Polish migration to an old good migration – people who arrived here 60 years ago, and bad young Poles who came recently just to abuse nhs and social security system. The true is that post war migration had almost no impact on British economy comparing to after 2004 wave of migration and post war arrivals to the UK actually need more help from government then current migration.

You must be a closed-minded person, stucked in a box, with your xenophobic thinking.

Even if more and more Poles are claiming benefits and using government help it’s really LOW price for Britain to pay for having here hard working, skilled migrants who pay HUGE taxes, opening their businesses and generating money for this country.

I recommend you to read articles from The Independent and BBC, which I hope will clear some things up for you and maybe change the way you see Polish migration. Both relates to what happened if Poles leave UK.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7316261.stm


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-drain-drain-what-if-all-the-poles-went-home-817153.html


31-07-2008 16:49 Aha
Stan... when you say ‘we’ who do you have on mind? You should say something like this only considering your own person cause it's only your own opinion, don't say 'we'... cause not 'we' but you have this sad way of thinking; prejudice and 'racism' fulfil your brain. Saying "Polish Race" u also show lack of education or ignorance, as Poles are the nation - not race. You bloody racist/nationalist!

Btw, British NHS sucks. In Poland doctors are much more competent and pay closer attention to their patients. Also dentists are far much better and careful, maybe that’s why many Brits have such terrible smelly teeth and breath? I'd better go to Poland for free visit than to use free HNS.
31-07-2008 16:19 nemo
I didn't read your whole discussion, but if it comes to medical health service in the uk: I travel to Poland every time I need to see the doctor or the dentist, as the NHS with its GPs are worth completely nothing and dentists are here expensive and less qualified then back in Poland. All my friends, flatmates do exactly the same as I do, to be jonest no one I know use free nhs service and it does include some British:)

PS I am new arrival, do not get any benefits, do not use your health system, do not clean toilets, so please do not say new migration is all that bad.
31-07-2008 15:14 stan
dear mo
it is blatantly obvious to anyone reading your post it seems you are Polish from the newer arrivals rather than a post war immigrant , it is quite sad how you feel that somehow this country owes you some kind of living and existence.If British people are on benefits and suchlike than that is thier entitlement , what benefits could you draw in mother Poland ? what council housing would be provided or indeed what medical health service do you have back home ?.your arguament is flawed in all ways and as to the Poles taking jobs the english/british dont want , are you suggesting that the Poles are simply bottom wipers and toilet cleaners ? fact is most of the new arrivals consider themselves a class above with fancy titles and making demands as if they are entitled to grants benefits and everything else as a matter of course, this is a far cry from the first generation of hard working Poles who arrived here over 60 years ago. I suggest you conveniently avoid the tax credit and working family tax credit point i raised as you know that a very large percentage of those you seek to defend claim this benefit to the point of abuse and this suddenly makes the poorly paid jobs somewhat more attractive.Before you spout more of the garbage that you do why dont you try going back home and see what the marvellous system your own country has in place gives you or in the event that your aurguament would be that your E.U. membership entitles you to all please tell me what your country as a fellow E.U. Member would give a British citizen , to save you some time in doing the job you do which we so dislike I will help you : ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
28-07-2008 21:32 mo
stan, I’ve got an advice for you: Before you claim that Poles do not fuel British economy, please go to Oxford Street and look around. The massive percentage of shoppers there are Polish. They buy cloths, electricals, mobiles, computers and other stuff. They are spending their money on transport, and every day living in the UK.

At the same time many workers in cafes, bars and shops at Oxford ST are Polish, working very hard, taking job positions not popular among British and paying their taxes.

So don’t talk rubbish, as Polish people working here are actually adding much more to British economy than taking back in a way of benefits.

It is much harder to get benefits for Polish person then British. British can claim Child Benefit in any case, while Poles needs to work for at least 1 year paying taxes and nin before claiming it and then work all the time in order not to loose the right to receive child benefit. Even if earning national minimum wage, tax paid by them is still more then child benefit!!!

It is British who live on benefits, stay in council houses and who rather get benefit then go to work. Polish people who do not work and claim benefits are a small percentage of Polish community in the UK, as a Poles must work to be able to keep benefits.
27-07-2008 00:32 stan
what a load of dross , the mass arrival of Poles to the UK has been of NO NETT BENEFIT to the United Kingdom , any genuine workers who now earn at least 30% less than they did initially due to the strength of the Zloty have gone home or are planning to go , the facts Mr Moszczynski conveniently omits , are : how many of these supposed hard working people draw additional government sponsorship by way of working families tax credits ? and better still after 12 months of working they are actually entitled to Income Support if in need , so the family unit becomes mother and children claiming income support and father either going awol or separating so that other provisions that can be claimed such as council tax exemption , free dental treatment and even entitlement to council housing are expedited .It is complete garbage to suggest that the UK and its citizens are somehow better off with this mass influx , money that is earned in the UK is squirelled back home for various reasons but certainly not left fuelling the UK economy and the rights to providing children with schooling , whole families with NHS doctors and nurses are taken for granted. What I suggest Mr Moczynski is to get off your soap box and talk some real TRUTHS not the half truths that you prefer to adress in your epistle , it is accepted that a lot of the Polish race is indeed hardworking and law abiding , but what about the pimps , drug dealers and crooks generally who have been allowed to enter this country and start afresh ? why is that a normal UK resident to even open a simple bank account needs ID and utility bills with the money laundering regulations being flaunted as a major reason yet a new arrival from Poland need only produce an id card or passport ( no utility bill or proof of adress )how can this be deemed correct ? how can it be right that a person who has worked all his life and paid taxes in the uK cannot get any kind of loan as they have a default or late payment note on thier account yet these new arrivals are showered with thousands of pounds and thier history may be very dubious . It is simply a total disgrace and its helped by morons like Mr Moczynski who wants you know only part of the story
06-06-2008 15:25 derek
Just wanna say very good comment provieded by Express Polish, U.K. is a great prospect country for all nationals. In my opinion it takes time to adopat to a british way of life, cause language barrier, but dont get me wrong Poles brings great and rich culture of life and can very well intergate into society.
06-06-2008 14:19 come on!
to nie brak oleju, to system, ktory spowodowal, ze Polacy maja postawe oczekujaca ( + roszczeniowa ale to inny temat ) a nie sami sie garna i sami potrafia sobie znalezc, eh
06-06-2008 12:13 nick
zeby korzystac z google trzeba miec troche oleju w glowie czego rodakom brakuje...
06-06-2008 09:11 come on!
p.Moszczynski nie odkryl kola moi drodzy, tylko skrupulatnie zebral wszelkie informacje, ktora sa na codzien dostepne u wojka google. Nagle powstaje glos, ze dajemy sie, ze nie wolno nas lekcewazyc itp. Ludzie, to co tej pory robiliscie? To jest smieszne, ktos musi wam pokazac, powiedziec, ze jestesmy wartosciowi? Co do tej pory mysleliscie? Come on!
05-06-2008 19:02 nicku
dajemy sie kopac w dupe poki co
05-06-2008 12:12 mumio
juz powinni sie z nami liczyc, pan moszczynski pokazal nam jak trzeba reagowac, ale to od nas zalezy czy damy sie kopac w dupe czy pokazemy ze nie wolno nas lekcewazyc...
05-06-2008 11:41 monty
madry facet w przeciwienstwie do innych co wszystko maja w d.... gdyby bylo wiecej takich jak on brytyjczycy musieli by sie z nami liczyc :o
05-06-2008 10:40 biały
zgadzam się z panem Moszczyńskim... więcej takich ludzi jak on potrzeba nam w tym kraju...
04-06-2008 21:54 zajelo
zajelo mi 20 minut zeby przeczytac, teraz jeszcze raz zeby zrozumiec:) ale tego jest!
04-06-2008 21:26 niom
oczywiscie ze nigdzie sie stad nie ruszam. ani moi znajomi. jeszcze duzo polska sie musi nauczyc zeby konkurowac z zachodem

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